Advice on dilapidations

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   Hi
I have been a landlord for 5 years with no problems, and always a good relationship with students, letting to groups of 4-5 as a whole-house let, without an agent. I have just checked out a group of 5 but only the lead tenant attended to agree dilapidations - despite my giving notice and offering an alternative date.
We compared detailed inventories and the lead tenant agreed reasonable and modest dilapidations with me which I think very fair, considering the house was very dirty, lots of rubbish in the front and back yard - he had been left to clear and clean it by himself - spare furniture needing removal some minor breakages etc. i do all my own cleaning, mending and redectorating
I returned the agreed deposit to him after the deductions via the Deposit Protection Scheme. A clause in the contract allows me to repay to the lead tenant for him/her to distribute among the group.
I now have 2 of the other students demanding to see receipts (eg for cleaning), to substatiate very small amounts (£10 or under) claimed against broken lights etc and complaining that the deposit was only returned to the lead tenant. The total dilapidations I charged were £365 as follows:
Front and back garden clearing and cleaning up. Putrid rubbish, dead xmas tree, leaves, dead plants, weeds, wood and broken furniture, bike tires. Plus sundry items left in house to clear. 2 trips to tip required. £ 125.00
Steam cleaning carpet stairway £ 40.00
Hoover broken, was new £ 40.00
Replace bathroom light dome £ 10.00
broken standard lamp £ 10.00
Stain on sofa bed and missing mattress cover £ 10.00
Microwave broken - charge waived as more than 5 years old
Missing kitchen items: charge waived in lieu of misc items left
Fulfil internal house cleaning as required by contract including Removal of blue tack £ 130.00
Make good and repaint walls in all rooms accepted as wear and tear

I feel these charges are modest in a 5 bedroom house. I have responded factually and unemotionally to a tirade of email abuse and am at a loss at how to deal with this. What receipts am I legally required to show, now that the whole deposit process is already agreed with the lead tenant and completed?  How can I substatiate the cleaning and clearing as I have done it myself (I did this to save the tenants and myself money - it would have been over £370 to clean the house if I had brought in an outside agency.

Thanks for advice.

Jane Peckham

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j4n3 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 08 July 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3	Quote Reply Topic: Advice on dilapidations Posted: 08 July 2010 at 5:40pm
	Hi I have been a landlord for 5 years with no problems, and always a good relationship with students, letting to groups of 4-5 as a whole-house let, without an agent. I have just checked out a group of 5 but only the lead tenant attended to agree dilapidations - despite my giving notice and offering an alternative date. We compared detailed inventories and the lead tenant agreed reasonable and modest dilapidations with me which I think very fair, considering the house was very dirty, lots of rubbish in the front and back yard - he had been left to clear and clean it by himself - spare furniture needing removal some minor breakages etc. i do all my own cleaning, mending and redectorating I returned the agreed deposit to him after the deductions via the Deposit Protection Scheme. A clause in the contract allows me to repay to the lead tenant for him/her to distribute among the group. I now have 2 of the other students demanding to see receipts (eg for cleaning), to substatiate very small amounts (£10 or under) claimed against broken lights etc and complaining that the deposit was only returned to the lead tenant. The total dilapidations I charged were £365 as follows: Front and back garden clearing and cleaning up. Putrid rubbish, dead xmas tree, leaves, dead plants, weeds, wood and broken furniture, bike tires. Plus sundry items left in house to clear. 2 trips to tip required. £ 125.00 Steam cleaning carpet stairway £ 40.00 Hoover broken, was new £ 40.00 Replace bathroom light dome £ 10.00 broken standard lamp £ 10.00 Stain on sofa bed and missing mattress cover £ 10.00 Microwave broken - charge waived as more than 5 years old Missing kitchen items: charge waived in lieu of misc items left Fulfil internal house cleaning as required by contract including Removal of blue tack £ 130.00 Make good and repaint walls in all rooms accepted as wear and tear I feel these charges are modest in a 5 bedroom house. I have responded factually and unemotionally to a tirade of email abuse and am at a loss at how to deal with this. What receipts am I legally required to show, now that the whole deposit process is already agreed with the lead tenant and completed? How can I substatiate the cleaning and clearing as I have done it myself (I did this to save the tenants and myself money - it would have been over £370 to clean the house if I had brought in an outside agency. Thanks for advice. Jane Peckham
	Jane Peckham

Carryon Regardless Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Executive Member Joined: 06 June 2009 Location: North West Online Status: Offline Posts: 344	Quote Reply Posted: 08 July 2010 at 6:49pm
	I would refuse to deal with anyone who cannot conduct affairs in a reasonable fashion. It may be reasonable to suggest that they employ the services of a professional to act on their behalf. As you have negotiated the situation with their representative (lead tenant) I would consider the matter closed. Should they wish to have the matter reopened maybe showing your willingness to do this is a good gesture. Of course they should realise your attention to the matter would require payment up front, on an ongoing basis. They would have the choice to approach the DPS expressing their displeasure. As the DPS have paid final monies it is reasonable to assume that correct procedures have been followed, so I wouldn't expect much to come of that. They may also consider MCOL, but I would expect a similar result for them. In short put the onus on them to take action. "They know their rights", but will they have the energy to do anything about it, besides playing on their keyboards?
	CoR

j4n3 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 08 July 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3	Quote Reply Posted: 08 July 2010 at 7:01pm
	Many thanks. I feel reassured. I have not had to deal with such unreasonable people before. (I've been lucky!)
	Jane Peckham

Carryon Regardless Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Executive Member Joined: 06 June 2009 Location: North West Online Status: Offline Posts: 344	Quote Reply Posted: 08 July 2010 at 7:31pm
	I hope it stays that way for you
	CoR

Richlist Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List The 2,000 Posts Club Joined: 01 January 2007 Location: UK/Spain/France Online Status: Offline Posts: 3320	Quote Reply Posted: 08 July 2010 at 8:37pm
	My understanding is that landlords are not legally permitted to charge for their own time dealing with anything involving their own properties. I understand the OP's position, I sympathise with it and have been in similar situations myself. But, the bottom line is.......you either do it yourself and accept you will not be able to claim for your time (you can claim for materials) OR you get someone to do it and pay them. If it goes to court the OP will not be in a position to defend charges for their time spent cleaning up, repairs or maintenance of the student property. That would be bad enough if that were the end of it.....unfortunately it isn't :- As the OP has now received income for cleaning and rubbish clearance they should now ensure they include it in their year end tax return and pay the appropriate levels of income tax on these exra earnings!!!!!.......I know......unbelievable. But, if you want to handle it properly when it goes to court, you need to know how far you have climbed into the large black hole you've dug.
	Comments assume you're in England/Wales, pay under £2083 monthly rent and that your last AST was dated after 6/4/2007. Probably the best landlord in the world - well if its good enough for Carlsberg.

Carryon Regardless Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Executive Member Joined: 06 June 2009 Location: North West Online Status: Offline Posts: 344	Quote Reply Posted: 08 July 2010 at 10:12pm
	A court wouldn't have interest in the tax affairs of the op. I am not aware of how the op accounts his business but if it were similar to mine all revenues are demonstrated by the rental account. In simple terms money comes in, money goes out the balance is assessed for tax. It has become my understanding also (without clarification) that we are not permitted to claim for our efforts in court. I can also see that a T may be able to claw back such charges if seen as unfair, but I wouldn't make it easy for the '2 claimants' by accounting in detail so they are aware of how to challenge. No one can tell us that we must demonstrate our financial affairs in detail to a T, in this case the demonstration may be useful for the op as a defence should there be a court claim. If the ex T's require info charge 'em for it, if they don't like that see where they go next. Even by student standards the monies are not so great as to create great incentive to put in great effort. It's easier to go to the pub and get some more dosh from daddy. Let 'em. In my humblest of opinions of course
	CoR

j4n3 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 08 July 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3	Quote Reply Posted: 08 July 2010 at 10:21pm
	Dear fellow landlords, I have now had further threats from the 2 tenants who are being difficult, who have told me that it is illegal to return the deposit to the lead tenant. They have taken advie from citisnes advide and threaten to take me to the county court. In fact, in the online system of the DPS only allows me to check in and state what the amount is that has been agreed. The lead tenant checks in with his ID, which I do not have or know, and states how he would like the deposit returned. In this case, I know that he asked for the full deposit minus the agreed dilapidations to be returned to him, and he will disperse it among the others. So, have I broken the law in doing this? J
	Jane Peckham

Richlist Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List The 2,000 Posts Club Joined: 01 January 2007 Location: UK/Spain/France Online Status: Offline Posts: 3320	Quote Reply Posted: 08 July 2010 at 10:28pm
	A court wouldn't have interest in the tax affairs of the op. I'm not suggesting that they would, I'm merely stating the fact that the OP needs to declare the income. In my experience landlords sometimes 'conveniently' forget and a call to HMRC from an unhappy former tenant may initiate an investigation into the OP's tax affairs. We actually did this to a landlord who had charged one of my relatives for his time and who had deducted it from the deposit. I am not aware of how the op accounts his business but if it were similar to mine all revenues are demonstrated by the rental account. In simple terms money comes in, money goes out the balance is assessed for tax. We all know that where deposit receipts are involved its somewhat easy to leave them off the accounts. It has become my understanding also (without clarification) that we are not permitted to claim for our efforts in court. If you are referring to your time then that is true but the actual costs and expenses incurred in prosecuting or defending an action can be claimed.
	Comments assume you're in England/Wales, pay under £2083 monthly rent and that your last AST was dated after 6/4/2007. Probably the best landlord in the world - well if its good enough for Carlsberg.

Carryon Regardless Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Executive Member Joined: 06 June 2009 Location: North West Online Status: Offline Posts: 344	Quote Reply Posted: 08 July 2010 at 10:29pm
	You have a clause permitting for what has been done. And although I am inexperienced with the DPS, it wasn't you that returned the money, in fact it wasn't in your possession to return it. As it's demonstrable that the lead tenant holds the funds I would view that that is where the 2 should chase their share. They have agreed to this course of events. I cannot see that your term would be viewed as unfair as it isn't designed for you to profit.
	CoR

Richlist Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List The 2,000 Posts Club Joined: 01 January 2007 Location: UK/Spain/France Online Status: Offline Posts: 3320	Quote Reply Posted: 08 July 2010 at 10:31pm
	So, have I broken the law in doing this? It don't look like it does it. All you've done is followed the process.
	Comments assume you're in England/Wales, pay under £2083 monthly rent and that your last AST was dated after 6/4/2007. Probably the best landlord in the world - well if its good enough for Carlsberg.

Advice on dilapidations

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